I hope I am posting this in the right section. I'm not really looking for a debate, but rather, I have some questions about alcohol and drinking in general and wondered what others thoughts/opinions are.

My current thinking is that I personally have a drinking problem. I don't know if I am an "alcoholic" and sort of balk at that description. In my experience, alcohol is very much "learned" in a cultural context (aside from what I am learning about the science behind the sinclair method.) I grew up in Europe and I saw a few people here that are also from there....I am not arguing that alcoholism exists but I am wondering if the definition of this word, is different for us, especially when it comes to American standards.

Here are my questions...

American standards do seem very driven by a close relationship to American history of puritanism and temperence movements.....is this not also a cultural attitude toward alcohol? How do you think that affects people as individuals? Does it even matter?

Also, in line with this sort of view (that attitudes/drinking behaviors can be leanred in a cultural context) I read an article in the NY Times recently called "The Americanization of Mental Illness." (Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/magaz ... che-t.html )

In this article, it doesn't really discuss AA or American based 12 step programs or even alcoholism as a "mental illness" but it does give some interesting food for thought ...in general, the ideas in the article is that American ideas regarding diagnosis of mental illness often ignore indigenous cultures and their definitions, and instead "impose American definitions" onto those cultures...I hope I am making sense and not ruining this question....has anyone else read this article and do you think the ideas in it, are relevant to the study of alcoholism, etc?

Hope you will freely share what you think...I'm here to learn from you....I'm planning to start TSM treatment in April...really want to use my non-drinking hours (during the day!) constructively! LOL....hope to hear your opinions.

--pyrata

Pyrata,

I do think that the prevailing attitude in the US is that alcoholism is a weakness rather than a disease. This is in the face of the stark fact that at least 10% of adults in the US are chronic alcohol abusers.

This site records the efforts of a small group of pioneers.

-wort

Pyrata,

I am not responding to some of your questions because others will do that. I want to answer what I think is your most important query.

I think more important than any definition of "alcoholism" is the answer to the question: Is alcohol causing difficulty in your life?

Whether it is relationship problems, health problems, job problems, legal problems (drunk driving), whatever... If alcohol is causing problems and you cannot readily give up alcohol - then you have an alcohol problem.

My last statement is the key. If you cannot stop drinking alcohol despite whatever issues it helps drag you into - then it's a problem - and you need to deal with it "right now". Choose your method but do it regardless.

Best,

RV

Along those lines... I cannot relate to mental illness other than re some panic attacks I had a few years ago. When I hear people ridiculing the mentally ill I can do nothing but pray to God that someday they are struck with some sort of mental illness (even something benign like panic attacks) so they will understand. Seriously, they won't get it until it hits them.

Hi Pyrata

I think the most important question is the one which RV has noted.

Nonetheless, you raise an interesting issue. I would agree that the cultural context is very signficant.

For example in much of continental Europe (as you'll well know) it is relatively unusual to consider alcohol in the absence of food. In those countries people will often drink much more frequently, but possibly less per sitting than in other countries.

If I (from Ireland) said to someone from (for example) Spain that I had a 'quiet drink' with a friend, that might mean 1.5 to 2 litres of beer (i.e. 7-10 units). A spaniard might be horrified at the thought of 10 units being a 'quiet drink', whereas the average person here wouldn't bat an eyelid. Equally, the average person here might be horrified if I said I drank some alcohol (e.g. 2 glasses of wine with dinner each day) every day - whereas my Spanish friend might think "big deal"

There are different cultural norms too in other areas surrounding alcohol - for example most Irish adults will meet with their friends in a context in which alcohol is present, i.e. their local pub. My experience in Germany (or at least in Bavaria) is that it tends to be something similar. That isn't necessarily the same in other countries - where people might meet at the bowling alley, bridge club etc

As RV says though - you can cut through a lot of the cultural covering by focussing on whether or not alcohol causes problems of any sort for you or those in your life. If the answer is yes (or no), it doesn't matter what the cultural norms of some other (or your own) society suggest regarding absence or presence of alcoholism/alcohol problem.

Don't have much to add from the cultural perspective. However, I entirely agree with RV9 and 1-4. Regardless of the label, "disease", "addiction" or whatever, the best definition I've heard of problem drinking is this: continued, uncontrolled drinking despite adverse consequences. That would be any adverse consequence, be it health, legal or relationship-related.

I agree with 1-for and RV9. If you think you may have a problem, you probably have lost control over your drinking. I'm glad you found us. The nice thing about TSM is that it really doesn't matter if you are a full-blown alcoholic; Sinclair has found that proper use of naltrexone can nip in the bud -- or even prevent -- a drinking problem. Eskapa wrote about this in his book. In fact, some young people have shown up here in the early stages of problem drinking and found they quickly got back control. AJ_ is an example. There really is no down side to just taking a nal an hour before you drink if you are concerned about your drinking. This treatment is the same across the continuum. The only difference we have seen is that long-term drinkers seem to take longer to get good results. Best of luck, and let us know what you decide.